New technology : Merchant Skills (Small)

[Most Lee Harmless]

You raised a philosophical objection to the suggestions I made : not on the practicalities of the technologies themselves, but, it seemed to me, to technologies as a whole : that's what I have replied to : I find your logic flawed and have stated why and pointed out the obvious conclusions of that logic : that's not taking the mickie, that's debate : I'd rather debate the practicalities of my proposal : is it workable?, is it achievable?, does it give benefits at a fair cost?

[Crackedcubes]

Yes, I agree...I raised a rational, sensibly calm, and composed objection to the proposed addition of a "Merchant Skills" Academy Tech.

In regards to the results, usefulness and specific advantages and disadvantages of the proposed tech itself. My analysis of the proposed tech led me to the conclusion that this tech is the playground for a few players in the game and not the masses. I will elaborate:

Warehouse tech costs $396,178,562 to get to level 20 (assumes gold bars cost on average $2,400), so that's $165M in gold coins + $230M in gold bars to fully research Warehouse Tycoon. Thus, the proposed Merchant Skills tech will run $396M to fully research and take 90 to 100 days ( excluding factors such as increased research time speeds from higher level Academys).

Your average trade fleet of 4 LMMs and 1 Howker stores 540 crates. Let's use highest price resource (excluding gold bars) of iron for pricing. Assume average price of $20, that's $10,800 of gross sales in a port for 1 trade fleet. Assume player has fully researched "Merchant Skills" to level 20, then 20% of $10,800 = $2,160. With Officer's Contract Tech, the new happy medium for captain/ship count moves from 200 to 400 resulting in 80 trade fleets, give or take a few. 80 trade fleets times $2,160 "Merchant Skills: rebate =$172,800 times (say 12 trips a day) to sale your iron = $2,073,600 in additional income from the Merchant Skills tech.

Obviously, this tech is reserved for the players in this game that have been here the longest and have amassed substantial wealth. Thus, the "haves" benefit from the suggestion and the "have nots" just get left further and further behind. After 191 days (actually shorter time, because my example only looks at one side of trade route)the "haves" have fully recovered their sunk cost and now they exponentially move ahead in daily gold coin generation.

In summary, i did think through the details of your suggestion. My initial response was grounded in the analysis above,

Is your suggestion workable, achievable, etc.. Yes, but only for the select few. It only enhances the game for the "pay to play" or the crusty ole gamer that has $400M to blow. As a trader I love anything that increases my trade profits. But I think this does nothing to improve the game for the masses, just the elites.

[Meliva]

Yes, I agree...I raised a rational, sensibly calm, and composed objection to the proposed addition of a "Merchant Skills" Academy Tech.

In regards to the results, usefulness and specific advantages and disadvantages of the proposed tech itself. My analysis of the proposed tech led me to the conclusion that this tech is the playground for a few players in the game and not the masses. I will elaborate:

Warehouse tech costs $396,178,562 to get to level 20 (assumes gold bars cost on average $2,400), so that's $165M in gold coins + $230M in gold bars to fully research Warehouse Tycoon. Thus, the proposed Merchant Skills tech will run $396M to fully research and take 90 to 100 days ( excluding factors such as increased research time speeds from higher level Academys).

Your average trade fleet of 4 LMMs and 1 Howker stores 540 crates. Let's use highest price resource (excluding gold bars) of iron for pricing. Assume average price of $20, that's $10,800 of gross sales in a port for 1 trade fleet. Assume player has fully researched "Merchant Skills" to level 20, then 20% of $10,800 = $2,160. With Officer's Contract Tech, the new happy medium for captain/ship count moves from 200 to 400 resulting in 80 trade fleets, give or take a few. 80 trade fleets times $2,160 "Merchant Skills: rebate =$172,800 times (say 12 trips a day) to sale your iron = $2,073,600 in additional income from the Merchant Skills tech.

Obviously, this tech is reserved for the players in this game that have been here the longest and have amassed substantial wealth. Thus, the "haves" benefit from the suggestion and the "have nots" just get left further and further behind. After 191 days (actually shorter time, because my example only looks at one side of trade route)the "haves" have fully recovered their sunk cost and now they exponentially move ahead in daily gold coin generation.

In summary, i did think through the details of your suggestion. My initial response was grounded in the analysis above,

Is your suggestion workable, achievable, etc.. Yes, but only for the select few. It only enhances the game for the "pay to play" or the crusty ole gamer that has $400M to blow. As a trader I love anything that increases my trade profits. But I think this does nothing to improve the game for the masses, just the elites.

well worded, but this applies to all the research techs. It would take me quite a bit of time and effort to get warehouse tycoon maxed, same with any other research. but even the smaller players can benefit from new tech, they don't NEED to max it out to benefit from it. just a level or 2 when they can afford it helps them in the long run. there will always be new players who cant afford things older players can. the fact that some people have played for years gives them a huge advantage. there will always be a gap, the new players of today might someday become powerful vets to be reckoned with, and the vets of today might move on. refusing to add new tech simply because the older players will benefit the most from it is not a valid reason to refuse it.

[Mack]

The more of this stuff we add the harder it is for the new people to even stand a chance

[Meliva]

The more of this stuff we add the harder it is for the new people to even stand a chance

if we don't add new content the older players will have less to do and the game will stagnate. newer players will always have a disadvantage. but not adding new mechanics simply to slow down or halt older players progress is not fair to them. some of them have played for years, they worked hard to get where there at. I know I wont be able to max out this tech if it gets added for a long time, but id still like the chance to start working on it.

[Mack]

I never thought about it like that, good point

[Crackedcubes]

The more of this stuff we add the harder it is for the new people to even stand a chance

if we don't add new content the older players will have less to do and the game will stagnate. newer players will always have a disadvantage. but not adding new mechanics simply to slow down or halt older players progress is not fair to them. some of them have played for years, they worked hard to get where there at. I know I wont be able to max out this tech if it gets added for a long time, but id still like the chance to start working on it.

There is plenty of "new content" to keep the older players busy. Current Academy tech amounts to a sunk cost of $2.5B and at most 1,106 research days . Of course, the research time can be lower with use of turns and increasing level of Academy.

In addition, look at recent events, it has taken several players ages to get to 1,000 captains. Just recently, we had a banker level out his bank to level 20. I would say, the older players in this game have plenty of "new stuff" to play around with, before additional items need to be added. Of course, if one "Pays to Play" and their pocket book is deep, then "yes" more stuff needs to be added. But, only admin and that particular player will know when that occurs.

Not adding new mechanics has nothing to do with slowing down older players, but simply retaining balance in the game. This "merchant Skill" tech is simply overpowering for merchants. Warehouse tyconn, storage contracts and various voodoo cards are sufficient for merchants to generate more than enough daily trade profits to build rivers of gold.

[Mack]

The more of this stuff we add the harder it is for the new people to even stand a chance

if we don't add new content the older players will have less to do and the game will stagnate. newer players will always have a disadvantage. but not adding new mechanics simply to slow down or halt older players progress is not fair to them. some of them have played for years, they worked hard to get where there at. I know I wont be able to max out this tech if it gets added for a long time, but id still like the chance to start working on it.

There is plenty of "new content" to keep the older players busy. Current Academy tech amounts to a sunk cost of $2.5B and at most 1,106 research days . Of course, the research time can be lower with use of turns and increasing level of Academy.

In addition, look at recent events, it has taken several players ages to get to 1,000 captains. Just recently, we had a banker level out his bank to level 20. I would say, the older players in this game have plenty of "new stuff" to play around with, before additional items need to be added. Of course, if one "Pays to Play" and their pocket book is deep, then "yes" more stuff needs to be added. But, only admin and that particular player will know when that occurs.

Not adding new mechanics has nothing to do with slowing down older players, but simply retaining balance in the game. This "merchant Skill" tech is simply overpowering for merchants. Warehouse tyconn, storage contracts and various voodoo cards are sufficient for merchants to generate more than enough daily trade profits to build rivers of gold.

+1 wish i was good at putting things into words... kinda what i was getting at

[Meliva]

The more of this stuff we add the harder it is for the new people to even stand a chance

if we don't add new content the older players will have less to do and the game will stagnate. newer players will always have a disadvantage. but not adding new mechanics simply to slow down or halt older players progress is not fair to them. some of them have played for years, they worked hard to get where there at. I know I wont be able to max out this tech if it gets added for a long time, but id still like the chance to start working on it.

There is plenty of "new content" to keep the older players busy. Current Academy tech amounts to a sunk cost of $2.5B and at most 1,106 research days . Of course, the research time can be lower with use of turns and increasing level of Academy.

In addition, look at recent events, it has taken several players ages to get to 1,000 captains. Just recently, we had a banker level out his bank to level 20. I would say, the older players in this game have plenty of "new stuff" to play around with, before additional items need to be added. Of course, if one "Pays to Play" and their pocket book is deep, then "yes" more stuff needs to be added. But, only admin and that particular player will know when that occurs.

Not adding new mechanics has nothing to do with slowing down older players, but simply retaining balance in the game. This "merchant Skill" tech is simply overpowering for merchants. Warehouse tyconn, storage contracts and various voodoo cards are sufficient for merchants to generate more than enough daily trade profits to build rivers of gold.

and tell me, who would suffer from merchants getting more gold. merchants would be happy, and with more gold, pirates can earn even more plundering them. and adding a few new techs, wont be that big a deal. like you said, players still have plenty to build and upgrade. they wont be able to get all this stuff upgraded very fast, it would take even them time and effort.

[Most Lee Harmless]

The more of this stuff we add the harder it is for the new people to even stand a chance

if we don't add new content the older players will have less to do and the game will stagnate. newer players will always have a disadvantage. but not adding new mechanics simply to slow down or halt older players progress is not fair to them. some of them have played for years, they worked hard to get where there at. I know I wont be able to max out this tech if it gets added for a long time, but id still like the chance to start working on it.

There is plenty of "new content" to keep the older players busy. Current Academy tech amounts to a sunk cost of $2.5B and at most 1,106 research days . Of course, the research time can be lower with use of turns and increasing level of Academy.

In addition, look at recent events, it has taken several players ages to get to 1,000 captains. Just recently, we had a banker level out his bank to level 20. I would say, the older players in this game have plenty of "new stuff" to play around with, before additional items need to be added. Of course, if one "Pays to Play" and their pocket book is deep, then "yes" more stuff needs to be added. But, only admin and that particular player will know when that occurs.

Not adding new mechanics has nothing to do with slowing down older players, but simply retaining balance in the game. This "merchant Skill" tech is simply overpowering for merchants. Warehouse tyconn, storage contracts and various voodoo cards are sufficient for merchants to generate more than enough daily trade profits to build rivers of gold.

I wont be researching all the techs to their highest levels : there are a significant number I will not even do to level 1 : it's no biggie, they just dont fit in with my play-style or needs : I reckon the same will apply to many others : the original idea was that few players would, with players electing to concentrate on those techs which suited their needs : so the 3 year total research time and billions of spending are a bit of a simplistic analysis : I believe the devs intent is to have a range of techs which will advantage those who elect to research them and yes, it will disadvantage those who dont : but by the same measure they will be disadvantaged in turn by those who research the ones they dont : In that wider choice lies many strategic choices and varieties of game-play : it adds new avenues for the smaller player to find and develop a niche in which they can prosper : To my mind, that aids balance, aids player development and adds new levels to the game itself.

I'll posit a question here, as you mention the 1000 captains thing : I barely need 50 captains : I run few ships yet consistently show up in the top ten for profitable fleets : they run with minimal voodoo, maybe an EIC if I remember to renew it but still work fine without one. In short, I have developed a minimalist strategy which earns me fair daily coin. Another player may choose to run 200 fleets and earn far more than me but never ever show up in most profitable fleets. So, who is the success?

Well, we both are, in different ways : Officer contracts mean nothing to me, for the 200 fleeter they are a vital tech : warehouse tycoon means little to me, certainly not enough to invest the millions reqd, and so on. Shipwright Management again, not necessary unless I choose to work the ship market, then it becomes of interest. Variety is the spice of life, lets have more, not less.