Balance to the war system

[Horatio Nelson]

Dear Admin,

this subject has been broached before I believe but not by myself. I want to explain that I have spent over a year build a respectable fleet, and a reasonable amount of fame. In less than 12 hours I have received 130 events causing me to lose 24 million fame and lose over 100 ships. This is utterly stupid. 130 events? You have turned this into a farce. Over a years work gone in 12 hours. What is the incentive to build I ask?

You have to place a limit on 1) the number of cards that can be played on a player every 24 hours; and 2) the number of time a player can be attacked in 24 hours.

What you have effectively done is set up a system for gutless guilds who are unable to control themselves...like the Pirate Kings to use 130 of different types of attacks on one player in less than 12 hours wiping out over 18 months of building. As I am in a different time zone - I have no ability to defend myself in the interim. I have tried to positively contribute to the game but honestly, this system of war is pathetic and needs to be remedied for other players who share my plight.

yours sincerely,

Horatio Nelson
Admiral of the Fleets
The Royal Navy

EDIT: My bad 100+ ships not 200.

[Captain Jack]

I think that the problem you are facing has been brought up before and a very good response from Black Sparrow concluded it the last time: viewtopic.php?p=947#p947

I will also add that fame is the main loss, which should be considered as something normal. I have predicted this in the past that the more fame you have, the bigger target you become (see my post here: viewtopic.php?p=822#p822 ). I'll also say that 20mils of fame on a single player is unrealistic and already a huge achievement by itself. Realistically speaking and in compare with game metrics, fame averages should be a lot less.

Now, lets add some more realistic variables into the equation that have also been brought up before in other discussions:
a)Merchant Fleets are the best way to generate gold and the easiest way to lose it.
b)Good organization will always prevail against any limit. When both are organized, better organization will still prevail.

I would like, if possible, to extract all the details from your case. What was the biggest problem you faced. What else have you lost instead of ships? Have you fought it alone ? So far there have been numerous #1 crashes (the first #1 to be crashed was Phill, he is now #1 again). After each take down, I think we have improved the game with various means. We will constantly guard and develop taking in mind the best for the game which trust me, it is very hard to see in short term.

Regarding the timezone problem you mentioned, there is already a mechanism to save you; It is Guild Active voodoo feature where your guildmates can see if you have voodoo casted on you and help you while you sleep (Black Sparrow first suggested this on the post I gave you above).

[Horatio Nelson]

There is no rocket science here Captain Jack. It simply the fact that 100+ attacks in a twelve hour period can be performed on an individual. It is ludicrous. Losses aside...this mechanism needs to be remedied. It appears that there is no limit to the number of attacks on any individual whether by voodoo or otherwise can occur. I have gone from a rather healthy outlook to extremely unhealthy. As far as I am concerned this system is untenable and needs to be addressed forthwith.

Or let me present it this way...do you think that 12 months of building should be almost wiped out in less than 12 hours? Yes fame is a factor but I have also lost about 100 ships. So what I am now factoring is the time and expense of building the fleet. The fame I can reconcile although it is still odd but the time to build a ship, and cost to nurture it to multiple levels I cannot reconcile. I am sorry but if it does not seem to be obvious to you then I am merely banging my head against a wall. I have played RPG's for almost five years. I have run a guild and have prepared my own forums for the guild. (I am happy to pm the links as evidence) The other nameless RPG is a geo-political simulator with war incorporated. I can tell you know that attacks are limited for the very reason I am respectfully informing you about. Example, only three individuals can attack at any one person, and they can have two air, two ground, two cruise missile and two naval attacks each. That prevents what occurred to me in the last few hours, an unlimited amount of attacks from countless faceless cowards. Which may I add, I did not provoke the attack meaning I had attacked no one.

I also want to complain about The Pirate Kings now known as The Rebel Navy utilizing a similar tag to ours by adding an apostrophe to confuse others who want to attack them. This again is a tactic of their pathetic leadership. I want you to make them change their tag because all they are doing is trying to confuse people.

My complaint is actually against one of your Moderators - Hellfire - as he is the guild master and set up this duplicitous [RN'] tag of deceit. Ours is [RN]. If this is how your moderators are going to conduct themselves then I am officially out. The tag is clearly set out to confuse people. For example:

Now, let me be clear...Hellfire may think this is amusing but surely such behavior is not in the spirit of the game. If it is then this game is rotten to the core. If it isn't then your moderator is rotten and he should be stood down forthwith. I also would like to know whether being a moderator can influence game mechanics. Moderators should be independent and not part of the game unless in an "Admin" group for testing. This is a clear conflict of interest.

EDIT: I also want to know what else a moderator can see or do...if he can see inside my guild then he would know exactly what I post to my members. So Captain Jack...can Hellfire or any moderator see inside my guild, read my messages etc?

These unethical attacks conducted by one of your moderators has placed your other moderator in No. 1 position on the fame charts. Do you see a problem with this? Without casting aspersions here, I find this thing reeks of unreasonableness.

[Roileon]

Dear Admin,

this subject has been broached before I believe but not by myself. I want to explain that I have spent over a year build a respectable fleet, and a reasonable amount of fame. In less than 12 hours I have received 130 events causing me to lose 24 million fame and lose over 100 ships. This is utterly stupid. 130 events? You have turned this into a farce. Over a years work gone in 12 hours. What is the incentive to build I ask?

You have to place a limit on 1) the number of cards that can be played on a player every 24 hours; and 2) the number of time a player can be attacked in 24 hours.

What you have effectively done is set up a system for gutless guilds who are unable to control themselves...like the Pirate Kings to use 130 of different types of attacks on one player in less than 12 hours wiping out over 18 months of building. As I am in a different time zone - I have no ability to defend myself in the interim. I have tried to positively contribute to the game but honestly, this system of war is pathetic and needs to be remedied for other players who share my plight.

yours sincerely,

Horatio Nelson
Admiral of the Fleets
The Royal Navy

EDIT: My bad 100+ ships not 200.

I agree a new system needs to be made but don't insult us like that because it was very well coordinated.

[Horatio Nelson]

Well o-ordinated yes...I have acknowledged that somewhere else but my complaint is legitimate. Do I need to repeat myself...unlimited attacks against a single player in 24hours by multiple players is unjust. Your cowardly alliance displayed it's colours by attacking me en-mass. It is simple - just limit the number of times a player can be attacked in any 24 hour period. How hard is that to explain? I thank your alliance for highlighting the inequitable war system which currently promotes ingame mugging.

[Roileon]

Well your welcome but wars don't exist in forums. I am here to put my input on what should be done about the limiting attacks on one player so that it is fair. I think there is an update that was suggested on guilds and people being able to have an option to declare war. Like when you go to the guild's page there is and option to declare war on it. Just like there is an option to add a person as a friend. The Add to Enemies can be changed into Declare War (still adds to enemy list except the name is changed to your current wars). When someone declares war on you, you receive a notice. If you Declare War back then the amount of times you can be attacked BY THAT PERSON ONLY then becomes unlimited or until a fame reaches a certain amount (maybe 25 or 20% of original fame before war) that will stop complete annihilation of players. Along with that comes the options of surrender or make peace agreement. In the make peace agreement option it will be like sending an invitation to a guild. In the text box the 2 parties have what they think the agreement should be and where it would say "apply" instead it gives you the 2 options "Accept" and "Deny". The two parties work this out until they both accept. When you are not at war with a player or guild though, the limit on attacks on 1 person should be at a reasonable 10attacks. This number can be changed but you have to realize that anything less is a very small number off attacks on a player within 24hours.

[Captain dungeness]

I agree with Horatio, the amount of "work" you can lose in a few hours is absurd. I lost over 200 ships in about 8 hours when PK attacked me 2 months ago. Those 200 ships took me over a year to build. When you log in after only a few hours away and find your trade empire in ruins you realize how disappointing the game can be.

I have enjoyed this game at times and I am excited the developers are actively improving it. But I have something to say:

Developers,
You have made a game that rewards brutal piracy and voodoo attacks above all other things. You've done a good job, the game is "Pirates Glory" after all. Here's the problem; Being the pirate is the fun part, but many people find themselves being the victim of the pirate's fun. Because pirates are able to steal huge chunks of your work the victim is left beat down and weak. That's no fun! I have had it happen to me two or three times now- not fun.

With the stakes being so high (10% fame decrease and 100% sink chance) the honest traders will always lose to the pirates. I anticipate someone will answer my statement by saying "then you should be a pirate". I will defend my guild's fleets when attacked but I am not willing to become a pirate bully, stealing from new players and weak players. I enjoy building up my guild's fleets and spending my turns casting beneficial voodoo on my guildmates and building more ships. If my teamwork-style of play is instantly destroyed by one player's voodoo-attacking-pirate-style then I get discouraged and lose interest in the game. Many players have complained on the forums and in game about this; it is not just me. People are getting hurt feelings after losing to someone who displays obvious disregard for the amount of "hard work" they stole. Playing a game isn't really "work"... but players get invested in their statistics and persona as if it really were their work.


I wish I could propose a simple solution to this problem but I don't have one. Generally, I want the amount of game value you can lose in one day to be limited. If I spend a year building up 5 million fame I would like to lose a maximum of 25% of it each day. If a guild really wanted to beat me then they could continue for the next few days and would lose, but at least I would have a chance to save something before it is all sunk. I would also want a limit to how many of my ships can be sunk or stolen in 1 day. I agree with the developers- I don't like "hard limits" but I am even more opposed to the discouragement of losing all my game value in only a few hours.

I wish we had more positive aspects of the Pirate theme without the negative hurt feelings of being the pirate's victim.
I wish teaching new players and non-piracy teamwork was more rewarded... but if I have unreasonable expectations for the game, please tell me and I will get over it.
Thank you,
-Captain D

[Faceless]

i think it is balanced,
yes, traders grow slower
and pirates, especially then organised, can sink most of particular player navy and grow much much faster, but they are gaining enemies too and in this vodoo control environment in a long run it may be definitive
and that is even more important these devastated attacked players are still here and they are dreaming for revenge
( rebuild is easer than build, officers are intact, warehouses full)

[Hellfire]

Well, Like many other games, we could always use AI as a filler for the "pirate" players. Say, instead of patrolling in a different box, like what has been mentioned before, we make all appearing fleets require patrolling, and if there are player ships in port, the pirate hunters wont show up. and don't allow the players to know which fleet is owned by an AI and which fleet is owned by a player. (simply show country flag, or make the random names much more believable as player names.)
I am fairly on the wall for the whole loose everything concept, I hail from Roughlikes, (look them up if your wondering) where you can literally loose everything on the drop of a hat. I like the challenge, I like the feel of not being able to just laugh off enemy attacks with no repercussion to my total assets. I do agree that there is a bit too much risk for loss in this game, but I cant tell how much would be too much or too little.

And on another note, Horatio, There is no policy against renaming your guild. There is no rule against using all means to help protect your guildmates and confuse your enemies. I have done nothing wrong here, the tag is different from the royal navy, so that any of your members who is actually paying attention will actually be able to tell the difference. And if not me, somebody else would have come along and done it anyway, so why not get an issue out of the way now. And I'm not a full moderator, I only moderate the tavern thread, nothing more.

[Captain dungeness]

But if I am seeking revenge and am able to take back all their fame then my enemy will want to do the same to me again. So back and forth it goes until someone decides they have bought enough voodoo cards and loses.

A game powered by revenge sounds stressful.

-Captain D