The young people of the day

[Most Lee Harmless]

You have to conflate the two to make your point ; thats the strawman .

A right you cant use is not a right at all : its a myth.

I never said they couldn't exercise their rights. I said it was ill planned and counter productive.

Ah, well, now that's a different question. Calling a six-foot 300lb kick boxer a dumbass fool may not be well planned or productive : doesnt mean they aint a dumbass fool.

[sXs]

I'll take issue with another of your points, Feniks : the United States does not 'allow' the right of peaceful protest : its task is to protect and nurture it : to ensure it can be used : as with all the rights enshrined under its constitution. They are not negotiable, they are inalienable and exist as part of every citizens birthright. The 'Flag Code' which lays down how the Flag should be treated is advisory, a breach is not punishable, though some may consider it poor manners. Indeed, the Constitution itself, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, defends the right of a citizen to insult the flag, for whatever reason they choose.
So, which right do you take issue with : the right to salute, or the right to ignore : both are equally valid, lawful and 'right'.

Yes I misstated that point. The government does not grant rights, it is tasked with protecting them. My point is this. The protests have done nothing more than insult the majority of the population. Both military and non. My fathers casket was covered in that flag, I have had cousins, nephews, friends I grew up with, school mates and neighbors caskets covered with that flag.

Their protests is a direct slap to those people, whether or not that was their intent is not the point.

[Mack]

In this case there are racist people EVERYWHERE! But to say the black race is opressed here in the United States Of America, is not true in most cases
. Im sure there are people that do deny them equal anything, but thats not the most of us thats a few of us. And it goes the other way around too, let a white girl walk into a.... anything in a gehtto, which in all reality thats what these thug football players are talking about. I wonder what could happen to said white girl... or a guy

[sXs]

Look at these stats from 2015...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/ ... shootings/

Yes look at the stats. 995 police shootings. of which 773 of them occurred when responding to an "attack in progress" threat level.

How many police interactions occur across this country on a daily basis? I would say hundreds of thousands on a daily basis, if not millions. That's tens of millions or hundreds of millions of interactions per year.

Does not excuse those shootings that were deemed criminal, but put it in perspective.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Again, you take one instance and conflate it to create another : the flag ceremony at a sports event does not honor the military for its service ; it honors the national symbols of flag and anthem, of the nation as a whole. The military is a part of it, yes, but not the whole. I can damn that which offends me yet still love much of what America stands for : one does not negate the other.

I strongly doubt any who have taken the knee would even consider not saluting a military cortege or showing direct disrepect to any who have served. Its instructive to look through the lives of those who take the knee and see how many have served themselves. They have family and kin who have served in recent and past wars.

Its an easy trap, and some would have us all fall into it : dont make this into something it is not just to make it easier to dismiss.

[Mack]

There isnt much social oppression here i dont know what else you could be talking about, the minorities have way more opportunity than the rest us the population, the "whites"

He spoke about the colored being killed by cops is why i stressed that point danik

[sXs]

Again, you take one instance and conflate it to create another : the flag ceremony at a sports event does not honor the military for its service ; it honors the national symbols of flag and anthem, of the nation as a whole. The military is a part of it, yes, but not the whole. I can damn that which offends me yet still love much of what America stands for : one does not negate the other.

I strongly doubt any who have taken the knee would even consider not saluting a military cortege or showing direct disrepect to any who have served. Its instructive to look through the lives of those who take the knee and see how many have served themselves. They have family and kin who have served in recent and past wars.

Its an easy trap, and some would have us all fall into it : dont make this into something it is not just to make it easier to dismiss.

Sorry to disagree again, but when I hear the anthem or see the flag, my first thoughts are of those who fought, and in some cases died, for that flag. It may be because I come from a family of those who have served, but it was instilled in me from a very young age. The anthem itself was inspired from military action.

From the battle of Fort McHenry.

"When he saw “by the dawn’s early light” of September 14, 1814, that the American flag soared above the fort, Key knew that Fort McHenry had not surrendered. Moved by the sight, he began to compose a poem.....' Which became the national anthem.

[DezNutz]

You have to conflate the two to make your point ; thats the strawman.

Read up on the history of the US National Anthem, and actual read the words. There is no conflation. The USA National Anthem was a poem written by Francis Scott Key during the War of 1812. The poem depicts the battle and defense of Fort McHenry in Baltimore, Maryland, and how the Flag still stood after the fight. The National Anthem honors those that fought to ensure our flag, a symbol of freedom, stood. Nothing to conflate.

As for their rights to protest, Yes, they as individuals have a right to protest on their own time. Keyword is on their own time. When they are on the field they are not on their own time. They are working for an organization that is directly funded via sponsors and the people sitting in the stands to watch the game. Fans aren't there to watch political statements or watch players be disrespectful to the Flag or National Anthem. When the national anthem is playing take a look through the stands. You aren't likely to see the fans disrespecting the flag or anthem.

Personally, I find all those protesting during the national anthem as a bunch of hypocrites. They claim they are fighting oppression and/or support BLM (Black Lives Matter), a group that actively called out for the killing of police officers, the same police officers that stand around the perimeter of their field providing security for them. I would also like to know what oppression they are fighting. They make on average 1.2M a year, thats roughly 1.15M more than the median family income in the USA (~50k) and most of them do nothing to help the local community.

NFL players and all other entertainment driven sports players are no different than the phonies in Hollywood. They aren't there to provide their political point of view or opinion. They get paid to play a game, just like actors/actresses get paid to be in movies and on TV. Being a celebrity doesn't make your opinion more relevant or necessary to being heard. If you want to get involved in politics and other facets, do it on your own time or change careers.

[sXs]

You have to conflate the two to make your point ; thats the strawman.

Read up on the history of the US National Anthem, and actual read the words. There is no conflation. The USA National Anthem was a poem written by Francis Scott Key during the War of 1812. The poem depicts the battle and defense of Fort McHenry in Baltimore, Maryland, and how the Flag still stood after the fight. The National Anthem honors those that fought to ensure our flag, a symbol of freedom, stood. Nothing to conflate.

As for their rights to protest, Yes, they as individuals have a right to protest on their own time. Keyword is on their own time. When they are on the field they are not on their own time. They are working for an organization that is directly funded via sponsors and the people sitting in the stands to watch the game. Fans aren't there to watch political statements or watch players be disrespectful to the Flag or National Anthem. When the national anthem is playing take a look through the stands. You aren't likely to see the fans disrespecting the flag or anthem.

Personally, I find all those protesting during the national anthem as a bunch of hypocrites. They claim they are fighting oppression and/or support BLM (Black Lives Matter), a group that actively called out for the killing of police officers, the same police officers that stand around the perimeter of their field providing security for them. I would also like to know what oppression they are fighting. They make on average 1.2M a year, thats roughly 1.15M more than the median family income in the USA (~50k) and most of them do nothing to help the local community.

NFL players and all other entertainment driven sports players are no different than the phonies in Hollywood. They aren't there to provide their political point of view or opinion. They get paid to play a game, just like actors/actresses get paid to be in movies and on TV. Being a celebrity doesn't make your opinion more relevant or necessary to being heard. If you want to get involved in politics and other facets, do it on your own time or change careers.

+1 exactly

[Banger]

You have to conflate the two to make your point ; thats the strawman.

Read up on the history of the US National Anthem, and actual read the words. There is no conflation. The USA National Anthem was a poem written by Francis Scott Key during the War of 1812. The poem depicts the battle and defense of Fort McHenry in Baltimore, Maryland, and how the Flag still stood after the fight. The National Anthem honors those that fought to ensure our flag, a symbol of freedom, stood. Nothing to conflate.

As for their rights to protest, Yes, they as individuals have a right to protest on their own time. Keyword is on their own time. When they are on the field they are not on their own time. They are working for an organization that is directly funded via sponsors and the people sitting in the stands to watch the game. Fans aren't there to watch political statements or watch players be disrespectful to the Flag or National Anthem. When the national anthem is playing take a look through the stands. You aren't likely to see the fans disrespecting the flag or anthem.

Personally, I find all those protesting during the national anthem as a bunch of hypocrites. They claim they are fighting oppression and/or support BLM (Black Lives Matter), a group that actively called out for the killing of police officers, the same police officers that stand around the perimeter of their field providing security for them. I would also like to know what oppression they are fighting. They make on average 1.2M a year, thats roughly 1.15M more than the median family income in the USA (~50k) and most of them do nothing to help the local community.

NFL players and all other entertainment driven sports players are no different than the phonies in Hollywood. They aren't there to provide their political point of view or opinion. They get paid to play a game, just like actors/actresses get paid to be in movies and on TV. Being a celebrity doesn't make your opinion more relevant or necessary to being heard. If you want to get involved in politics and other facets, do it on your own time or change careers.

Well said, couldn't have said it better myself.