Gun discussion

[sXs]

What if the data already tells us that gun control doesn’t work?

Study done in the wake of the Las Vegas shooting.

http://rare.us/rare-politics/issues/guns-rare-politics/what-if-the-data-already-tells-us-that-gun-control-doesnt-work/?utm_source=matt-kibbe&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=influencer

"The researchers found that some of the most common proposals from gun control advocates — buyback programs similar to Australia’s, defining and banning assault weapons, targeting silencers and limiting magazine sizes — none of them were actual solutions. She discovered that the U.S. and Australia are incomparable on this issue"

[Stan Rogers]

Trump was right. It's not a gun problem, it's a mental health problem. No sane person goes "postal" even if their house is full of firearms.
Now, if we extrapolate that premise, it shows us the USA has a major problem with mental disorders but somehow, I doubt per capital, it is no greater than anywhere else in the world.
So, how do you keep the guns out of the hands of the mentally disturbed ? Maybe mental disorder research is the partial answer. The other question is, why do other countries not have the same level of problems the USA does?

[Lana]

]

It's all about mentality of society. If you are born in society who teach you that the only way to save your property and life is to use guns, then you will fight to preserve that ''only way''. And the roots of this philosophy lay in the past (of Wild West), in the time of America's colonization, when guns have been used to declare your own (occupied) property. So, if you used guns to occupy it, you will use it to save it too. It's simple. Gun control is successfully implemented in so many parts in the world, but in USA society, I am afraid, will be never established. And not to talk about arms manufacturers and their lobbies…
I just can say, never have had the gun (used it few times as a part of compulsory school education on defense and protection), never had the reason to have it and hopefully will never have.

I think you misunderstand the "mentality of society" in the USA and the history of the Second Amendment. I was never taught that owning and using a gun was "the only way". It isn't a "wild west" mentality either. We have an inherent right to be secure in out persons and property. The Second Amendment is simply an acknowledgement of that Right.

The history goes back to before the US Revolution. In 1774, the British Parliament passed the Coercive Acts. These Acts, along with several other acts by King George III and the British Parliament triggered the Revolution. The US Revolution is the basis for our Bill of Right. Free Speech and freedom of the press, Illegal search and Seizure, Freedom of Religion, as well as the protection of gun ownership, all stemmed from things the British tried to impose upon us. The Second Amendment was put in place not for hunters, not to protect the sportsman. It was put in place to guarantee citizens the right to protect themselves from a government that may become something other than what was laid out in the Constitution.

Now you said "never had the reason to have it and hopefully will never have." I feel similarly but with one caveat. I would rather own a gun and never have the need to use it in defense, then to not have one in when it is needed. It has nothing to do with a "Wild West" mentality, it has nothing to do with guns being "the only way" to defend myself. It is simply a belief that, should the need ever arise, I can and will defend myself, my family and my property, against those that wish us harm and I will have the tools to do so equal to the tools of those who wish to bring that harm upon us.

I know I pissed you off with my comment and I am sorry for offending you as a citizen of USA, but I couldn’t find the other way (more politically correct) to say what I think about your ‘’pro et contra’’ (mostly contra) discussion about gun control.
Yep, I evoked time of wild west (the stereotype about Americans) just to point what makes the gun control difficult to implement in your country. Your belief that gun control will make you vulnerable and incapable to defend yourself, your family, or your property, comes from your tradition and that tradition is the source of all your problems with guns. (That tradition teaches you, not the teachers or whoever- don't take me literally).

Why do you fear about your property, your life, or the life of your loved ones at all? Why do you need to be, in any time prepared to defend them? Why do you need guns for that?
I tell you why. Gun is the most efficient tool to take away someone's life and having so many guns in circulation provoke crime (intentionally or accidentally). So, you are living in environment were your neighbor (for example) can kill you easily if he is ‘’gone amok’’, or some bad guy can easily robe you, or kill you using gun, of course. Phrase that ‘’guns don’t kill people, people kill people’’ is so used-up and so wrong when you think about, just a little more.

I am curious… do you have any other thing just to have it and not use it (not talking about art, but about useful things)? We are living in consumer society, so, we buy things to use them, not to keep them. Guns are useful things and soon or later will be used in some way. In USA, they are like condoms, you can buy it everywhere and as I see it, whoever you are (for protection, of course ).
Your 2nd amendment’s right tradition (or God-given right, as someone said long time ago in this or some other topic) makes you vulnerable not the gun control. That’s my opinion.

[DezNutz]

Trump was right. It's not a gun problem, it's a mental health problem. No sane person goes "postal" even if their house is full of firearms.
Now, if we extrapolate that premise, it shows us the USA has a major problem with mental disorders but somehow, I doubt per capital, it is no greater than anywhere else in the world.
So, how do you keep the guns out of the hands of the mentally disturbed ? Maybe mental disorder research is the partial answer. The other question is, why do other countries not have the same level of problems the USA does?

Anti-Psychiatric Movement.

[Meliva]

I know I pissed you off with my comment and I am sorry for offending you as a citizen of USA, but I couldn’t find the other way (more politically correct) to say what I think about your ‘’pro et contra’’ (mostly contra) discussion about gun control.
Yep, I evoked time of wild west (the stereotype about Americans) just to point what makes the gun control difficult to implement in your country. Your belief that gun control will make you vulnerable and incapable to defend yourself, your family, or your property, comes from your tradition and that tradition is the source of all your problems with guns. (That tradition teaches you, not the teachers or whoever- don't take me literally).

Why do you fear about your property, your life, or the life of your loved ones at all? Why do you need to be, in any time prepared to defend them? Why do you need guns for that?
I tell you why. Gun is the most efficient tool to take away someone's life and having so many guns in circulation provoke crime (intentionally or accidentally). So, you are living in environment were your neighbor (for example) can kill you easily if he is ‘’gone amok’’, or some bad guy can easily robe you, or kill you using gun, of course. Phrase that ‘’guns don’t kill people, people kill people’’ is so used-up and so wrong when you think about, just a little more.

I am curious… do you have any other thing just to have it and not use it (not talking about art, but about useful things)? We are living in consumer society, so, we buy things to use them, not to keep them. Guns are useful things and soon or later will be used in some way. In USA, they are like condoms, you can buy it everywhere and as I see it, whoever you are (for protection, of course ).
Your 2nd amendment’s right tradition (or God-given right, as someone said long time ago in this or some other topic) makes you vulnerable not the gun control. That’s my opinion.

Its better to have something and not need to use it, then not have it and then need it. And like stan said- no sane person kills for no reason. and if they lack a gun, they can use a knife, or a car, or a bomb. Or any sort of blunt object such as a bat. My father, and his father owned guns and would go hunting, along with their siblings. They never shot another person in all that time-and this is decades of time owning guns. Of course gun owners definitely need to be careful when they own guns and have children-since kids may not know how dangerous guns are. growing up my father kept his guns literally mounted and chained on the wall, unloaded and kept no bullets in the house, since his hunting days were done.

[OG Deadking]

hello all

[OG Deadking]

its been a while, matured a lot, been doing other things, glad to be back tho

[sXs]

I am not upset by your use of "wild west". I live in Texas. This was one of the areas that originated that phrase. There are over 24 million privately and legally owned firearms in the State of Texas alone. If there were a place in this nation that that phrase should apply, it would be here and it simply is not a representation of what it is like.

I do not fear for any of the above. I do not need a gun to protect my family in most cases, but once again, I would rather have it and not need it than not be able to have it at all.

As far as the question of do I possess anything else for a "just in case" scenario, absolutely. Generators "just in case" of power outages. Canned food in case of natural disaster. Example simply is the hurricane that hit Houston area. A first aid kit, candles, flashlights, radio and batteries, bottled water..... I can go on and on.

Now to your point of "good guy with a gun". If gun control works, why do police or law enforcement of any kind need to carry firearms? If I ever am in a position, which admittedly is very unlikely, that I need one of my several guns to defend myself, would you suggest I pick up my cell phone and call law enforcement?

The one thing you rarely see reported in the US is the number of crimes that are stopped because a private citizen had a gun. Of these the vast majority need only to pull out the weapon to detain a perpetrator. Very few ever need to fire their weapons.

"According to Dr. Gary Kleck, criminologist at Florida State University in Tallahassee and author of "Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America," a book used by many in the gun debate, 800,000-2,500,000 crimes are stopped by guns each year. "

The problem is you will never know how many lives were saved, because these crimes were prevented from happening in the first place. You never hear these statistics because you can't prove an end scenario that does not happen.

Yes things are unique in the United States, but studies have been done here that show that in places where gun laws are the most strict gun crimes occur at a higher rate. In areas where private gun ownership is highest, gun crimes are dramatically reduced. There is no debate about that point.

You do not prevent crime from happening by banning an activity. Most countries ban drugs, but drug use still happens. Almost every country has laws against drunk driving, but people die in alcohol related crashes. The same applies to gun control.

[Lana]

I am not upset by your use of "wild west". I live in Texas. This was one of the areas that originated that phrase. There are over 24 million privately and legally owned firearms in the State of Texas alone. If there were a place in this nation that that phrase should apply, it would be here and it simply is not a representation of what it is like.

I do not fear for any of the above. I do not need a gun to protect my family in most cases, but once again, I would rather have it and not need it than not be able to have it at all.

As far as the question of do I possess anything else for a "just in case" scenario, absolutely. Generators "just in case" of power outages. Canned food in case of natural disaster. Example simply is the hurricane that hit Houston area. A first aid kit, candles, flashlights, radio and batteries, bottled water..... I can go on and on.

Now to your point of "good guy with a gun". If gun control works, why do police or law enforcement of any kind need to carry firearms? If I ever am in a position, which admittedly is very unlikely, that I need one of my several guns to defend myself, would you suggest I pick up my cell phone and call law enforcement?

The one thing you rarely see reported in the US is the number of crimes that are stopped because a private citizen had a gun. Of these the vast majority need only to pull out the weapon to detain a perpetrator. Very few ever need to fire their weapons.

"According to Dr. Gary Kleck, criminologist at Florida State University in Tallahassee and author of "Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America," a book used by many in the gun debate, 800,000-2,500,000 crimes are stopped by guns each year. "

The problem is you will never know how many lives were saved, because these crimes were prevented from happening in the first place. You never hear these statistics because you can't prove an end scenario that does not happen.

Yes things are unique in the United States, but studies have been done here that show that in places where gun laws are the most strict gun crimes occur at a higher rate. In areas where private gun ownership is highest, gun crimes are dramatically reduced. There is no debate about that point.

You do not prevent crime from happening by banning an activity. Most countries ban drugs, but drug use still happens. Almost every country has laws against drunk driving, but people die in alcohol related crashes. The same applies to gun control.

Glad you are not offended!
About things you listed (canned food, first aid kit, candles, flashlights, radio and batteries, bottled water...), we all keep them, just in case, but those cases happens more frequently and supplies need to be renewed, from time to time. You can't compare flashlights, bottled water, medicines etc with guns. We use them occasionally and not only in some case of natural disaster, but guns for protection are not supposed to be used except in this case, but they are used frequently too, because you need to use it more frequently than in the other parts of the world.
So, tell me why this happens more often in the USA compared to the rest of the world?
Why do you need guns to intervene to prevent the crime? Because, the other side is armed too. So, if everyone have guns, the crime is more possible, don't you think?

[Meliva]

Glad you are not offended!
About things you listed (canned food, first aid kit, candles, flashlights, radio and batteries, bottled water...), we all keep them, just in case, but those cases happens more frequently and supplies need to be renewed, from time to time. You can't compare flashlights, bottled water, medicines etc with guns. We use them occasionally and not only in some case of natural disaster, but guns for protection are not supposed to be used except in this case, but they are used frequently too, because you need to use it more frequently than in the other parts of the world.
So, tell me why this happens more often in the USA compared to the rest of the world?
Why do you need guns to intervene to prevent the crime? Because, the other side is armed too. So, if everyone have guns, the crime is more possible, don't you think?

Not necessarily. Gun bans and gun laws do not matter to criminals or nutjobs who wish to use guns to kill or commit other crimes. They are criminals-laws are the last thing they care about. They will either obtain guns illegally, or use an alternative. Look at Chicago, very strict gun laws yet very many deaths by guns. And if criminals know that most if not all civilians are unarmed, they need not fear them. They only need to watch out for cops. Take Texas for an example. Many people there own guns. If I was a criminal, I would rather avoid commiting crimes in texas, since there is a good chance the house I'm breaking into has a gun owner who can and probably will blow my brains out if given the chance. on the other hand, if I was in a place where guns are banned and I had one illegally, I could break into any house without needing to worry if they could shoot me or not.